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The following tale, as told by the principles and those involved, is not of
an Empire Invaision or scheduled event.
The following messages are reproduced here in a single body as the tale not only involves three people with significant ties to Empire (actually, one in each of the three pairs of Rover drivers), but editorially we feel that there is a need to collect this story in one place, so that others can read this tale, and hopefully avoid entering this type of life-threatening situation, or have the sense to avoid entirely different though similarly dangerous situations.
Winter Mis-Adventure24 January 1999 Recently a number of D90/Range Rover Owner list readers set off on an adhoc winter off-roading trip in Vermont (Northeastern US) and encounter a number of problems - ranging from mechanical to weather. The net result was half of the six vehicles required mechanical repairs, two of those were actually disabled and abandoned on the trail in the middle of a stream. The passengers forced to return to the trailhead on foot, crossing through a number of run-off swollen creeks. Most of the discussion (which follows) has centered about the behaviour of some of the participants. What their behaviour was, is known to four people who were there. Most of the rest of the discussion/supposition/defense are peoples thoughts on the individuals involved or their behaviours/actions/re-actions as reported. All of these messages and commentary have been gathered into one place, not with the intent to judge, harm or glorify any of the people involved, but rather to relate this event as a cautionary tale, in the hopes that others can learn from it, and avoid having another party return from a trip or event in similar or worse circumstances, and also to avoid the damaging conflicts between individuals which adversely affect the community.
The settingAn adhoc, informal group, not well organized, of six vehicles set out traversing serveral miles of terrain and a couple streams. In a hill climb, one of the modified vehicles experiences mechanical problems (broken half-shaft) and decides to leave and another second vehicle joins him, both returning to the road and onward destinations without difficulty.Of the four vehicles remaining two surmount the hill which defeated the first, and decide to press on, with the second pair electing to return to the main road, but apparently not with the first pair that returned. This second pair thinks that going forward may be more risky for their trucks than going back. Of this pair, the lead vehicle becomes high centered on a submerged object in the stream. While recoving the first, the second vehicle becomes disabled. Both vehicles are now stuck in a snow-melt and rain-swollen stream, with four streams to cross, near-freezing temperatures and a few miles of snowy trails to the nearest road or house. The drivers are now left wet, cold and stranded, whilst the vehicles are in rising waters. If it is not, it could easily become a life-threatening situation.
As you read of this mis-adventure there are a number of things here which should cause you to ask a number of questions:
Regarding ProceduresSome of the responses have theorized that 'good trail procedures' if in place would have prevented this mis-adventure. However, even in reading the trail practices which have been published by various groups previously, it is clear that FOLLOWING PRINTED PROCEDURES WOULD NOT HAVE PREVENTED this situation. It would not have prevented either pair of vehicles from splitting off as they did, nor their getting stuck.Radios (CB, FRS or Ham) can be adversely affected by terrain features, distance, and weather. Cell phones are only viable in service areas, and then only if you can describe how to get to where you are. GPS doesn't do you any good unless you know which direction you need to travel in, and have maps to help you determine the best route. What went wrong ? Lots of things. Is there a smoking gun? I'm not clear on that. In usual list fashion, there are lots of comments about how some reader reacted to the tale, and what they'll do in the future. What you choose to do with this information is up to you. However, if the distances had been slightly greater, the returning party would have been entirely out of radio contact when they got stuck. If conditions had been more severe, due to the run-off, the cold, or being further from the road, it is likely members of the stranded party would have suffered far more than they did. Food for thought.
Messages from the rro mailing list digest archiveThe discussion started in the D-90 mailing list, and was brought into the Range Rover Owner mailing list by the principles involved. The following entries were submitted to the RRO mailing list from the January 26th to February 1st, 1999.
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] From: <DJMARLEY@aol.com> Subject: [D90] Killington Trail Report(LONG) [forwarded by Chris Velardi to the RRO list at 10:47 26 Jan 1999 This full report should have gone out before my addition to it. Chris "V"]The weekend began with Doug Boehme taking a week off for a family vacation with wife and kids to Stowe, Vermont. He decided to start early with the wife and family driving separately and Doug driving up early to get a day in Off-Roading with a few of the list members. So Chris "V", Brian Bonner, Ernie Young, Paul Shumway from British Bulldog Spares, Doug Boehme, myself, and two "others" got together for a day exploring Calvin Coolidge State Forest in Plymouth, VT. The adventure actually took place over a three day period, to be exact, because of a series of conditions which I shall elaborate on later. On Saturday morning, under rainy skies, Chris "V" and Ernie arrived at my home With Ernie driving his 90 RR and Hybrid trailered behind. We unloaded the Hybrid and decided on a scouting mission that afternoon as we awaited Doug and the others. Before long on our afternoon run I had problems as a stainless brake line wore thru causing a complete loss of brake pressure. We decide to head back to try to find the necessary parts to hopefully repair the line before tomorrow's run with the rest of the group. To no avail parts were not available anywhere and I had to park the rig for Sunday's run. After a night out in Killington, VT (a ski town with 36 bars all within stumbling distance of the ski lifts) we gathered, aside from Brian Bonner the base of Killington Access Road to head out. After torrential rains all night we continued to receive more rain, eventually receiving 4 inches this weekend. With plenty of snow still around, from a 2 foot storm earlier in the week, we encountered a slide from a ridge line depositing two feet of snow, mud, slush into the roadway on our way to the trail head. At the trail head we pushed ahead with Doug chaining up and enjoying the Scenic Vermont countryside under a layer of snow and ice. After crossing four streams, swollen from heavy rains Chris "V" chose a line up a hill with 12+ inches of snow and broke a half shaft mid way up forcing him to turn back. With Ernie leading the way Chris "V" headed back in three wheel drive. At this point the "others" separated from the group as they continued up the hill climb leaving Doug and Paul behind. Not having much luck getting up the hill Doug and a friend, Paul Shumway and myself decided to head back. Calling out on the CB we told the "others" ahead of our situation and were told they were "having tea and scones" and otherwise busy. Heading back out the way we came in the two rigs encountered many troubles as the streams were now screaming rivers as the drenching rain continued. With Doug and Paul both getting high centered on a fallen tree in the river bringing both rigs to a halt. After much recovery work the tree was finally clear from under and we pressed on. Pushing thru at this point we were traveling in an adjacent stream bed with 3 plus feet of water flowing under us. Almost out of the stream bed Doug was high centered again as an underbelly skid plate halted all forward movement. With Paul's Disco behind we hooked up recovery lines and began the pull. With the line coming loose during the procedure it ripped out a transmission line on it's way free leaving Paul in bad shape. Being that Paul was three feet under water at this point a field repair was next to impossible. Midway in the trail we have a Disco with no transmission and a D90 stuck ahead of it. So from there we tried arduously to free Doug's D90 with no avail so as to at least get the four of "us" out of the trail and back to safe ground. It was starting to get dark at this point and still being three and a half miles into the trail we decided to start hiking out. With the four, now river crossings, we knew it would be difficult to proceed across them but we did so by forming a chain by joining our hands at each to prevent anyone getting washed down stream. Finally at 7:30PM we arrive at the Hawk Mountain Inn near the trailhead and plead for help as we are soaked and in need of a warm place and then transport back to my home to regroup. By this point the four of us are totally drained and decide to attempt a recovery in the morning as we were in need of another Rover to first get back to the same spot and then recover the other two vehicles. At first light we were to head out. But before that we needed vehicles to do so. We contacted Brian Bonner from Burlington, VT to ask him to come and help. I also start calling everywhere so as to attain another stainless brake line to also assist in the recovery, being that I was the only fully locked rig knowing we may need to tow Paul's Disco out the three and a half miles thru an almost impassable trail at this point. Turned out the only place that had a line was Alan Eliot at CitySide Garage in Boston, Massachusetts (a three hour drive each way from Killington) So with no other means of obtaining a line I made the trip there with Paul Shumway and back picking up my line and a few other parts that may be needed to repair his blown transmission cooler lines. All this being completed by 3:00PM we headed back out on the trail with Brian Bonner and myself incurring trails even more washed out than the day before to even get to the two stuck vehicles. At this point Brian started working his 12,000 pound winch hard with his own D90 tied to a tree so as to prevent him being pulled in too. After much work both vehicles were freed and towed to flat ground to start the inspection to see if they were able to be driven out. Paul was able to repair the dislodged cooler lines with hoses and clamps we brought in and topped off the fluid and was able to drive out. Doug was not as lucky. After spending the night submerged in three feet of 32 degree water his D90 was reluctant to start. We secured Doug's D90 behind mine using a kinetic rope and began the long trip out. As it started to get dark again, now our third day out and knowing that the four stream crossings that lie ahead we moved quickly. With myself first with Doug in tow and then Paul Shumway and lastly Brian Bonner we moved out. With myself fully locked at points to get Doug thru we made our way back to the trail head and then to my home to regroup. With Doug still immobile, and wife waiting at Stowe to begin the family vacation, he and friend stayed yet another night at my home. As I write this Doug is arranging transport to a repair facility and then will join his family to start their holiday. With Doug being in the "dog house" with his wife (and loosing Off-Roading privileges "FOREVER") the rest of the group headed home. So I must say we probably can add a few more to the list of people who are BANNED from winter Off-Roading as Dennis White now has some company. Even though we had some problems it all worked out and by staying as a team, aside from the "other's" (not to be named, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) we worked thru our problems and still had a good time getting the oval a little "muddy"
Derek Marley
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] From: "Chris Velardi" <tchris@freewwweb.com> Subject: Re: [D90] Killington Trail Report(LONG) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:59:52 -0500 To add to Derek 's trail report, If you plan on doing any serious off roading make sure the group you go with has the same off-road ideals , mottos and credos you do. If you are going to put your rig and your life in others hands make sure they are not going to lead you, send you , or leave you some place where you cant get out of. I always assumed (never a good thing) that everyone on the trail was responsible for the rig behind them. In such instances everyone either gets through or gets help. What we do is not a contest to see if you can bury another driver , but a camaraderie of rigs who together can accomplish just about anything. It's a team work thing that at the end of the day everyone looks back at what they have accomplished , analyzed how it was done and learns form it ; in turn gaining friends, great experiences and stories to tell. In the last two trips I was on there where people who excluded them selves from further extreme winter snow and ice driving and others (loved ones) who excluded them; then on a more sour note those who would be excluded from invitation on further events. Those that would sit in their rigs and wait to be recovered not wanting to get cold, wet or muddy and those that would sit in their rigs while others lie in peril figuring that the others will take care of them. This is not a voyeurism sport, if your there lets hope you have the balls to help those around you... remember some day you may be in need, and you better hope others are there for you. On New Years day some one came up to me in the pitch black, sub freezing cold and said I deserved some kind of purple heart award, because I was out of my vehicle more than I was in it, tending to everyone's recovery during the 9 hour 3 mile trail ride...my girlfriend looked at me and thought it was strange that my actions were seen as "above the call" and not the norm. She then proceeded to list off those on the trip she would never off road with again, and if I did she wouldn't attend. This past weekend when Chris Komar (sp) of DAP answered a call for assistance from two remaining vehicles after I had left the trail with a broken half shaft with the reply "were having tea and scones" and then continued on to have lunch and leave the trail. I was applauded I had never heard of such a blatant lack of camaraderie in my entire life. When my rig went lame Ernie Young not only gave up the rest of his day to assist in getting my rig back to civilization, but lent me his Range Rover and his trailer to get my rig back to CT. while he drove his hybrid with no heat and excessive exhaust fumes 5 hours back to RI which he normally trailers This was so far above and beyond the role of friends it reminds me why I email him and a few others every time an event comes up. I was glad to here no serious injuries happened and hopefully the rigs can be repaired with out excessive cost. If the lead rig after I left had added assistance there would have been little to no damage , no days of work missed , and no vacations ruined...Keep this in mind. It's too bad we have to have experiences like these , to see who should invite and who we should avoid when putting trips together. Chris "V"
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From: Chris Velardi <tchris@freewwweb.com>
Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 6:56 PM
Subject: UPDATE
[forwarded by Chris Velardi to the RRO list at 12:34 26 Jan 1999]
Just a note to update a few of you that called with concern, Brain Boner drover back down from Burlington VT and Derek drove to Boston and back for a brake line for his truck to try to get at least two vehicles on the recovery attempt By 3 p.m. they went back in and it is now 6:45 , no word from them yet. The Discos transmission is gone so the recovery will be that much more difficult. I'll Email every one when I hear more news. Chris "V"
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From: Bernie & Bill Cameron <bhc@worldpath.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 7:39 AM
[forwarded by Chris Velardi to the RRO list at 12:34 26 Jan 1999]
Komar, Didn't these guys even call you? I should have thought that they'd be smart enough to get help locally. Bernie
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From: D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc. <dapinc@vermontel.com>
Subject: Re: Please give to Chris K.
[forwarded by Chris Velardi to the RRO list at 12:34 26 Jan 1999]
Dear Bernie & Bill, I guess there's something to be said for having older Land Rover products and "a lot of knowledge", as opposed to having the latest Land Rover products and "little knowledge". It's too bad that our "trailmates" collectively weren't able to recover their rigs. If you remember, we had a nice lunch and we did check to see if anyone needed assistance before we left. Amateurs!
Regards,
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] From: "Chris Velardi" <tchris@freewwweb.com> Subject: Fw: Please give to Chris K. Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:34:38 -0500 After two vehicles sat broken and stranded in a rain swollen river with sub freezing temperatures for over 24 hours , and four rover owners had to wade back through 3.5 miles of streams and snow before getting to the nearest road at 10pm this is the reply that was expected. Keep in mind he is not only supposed to be a Rover enthusiast but a Rover parts retailer also. And if some one abandons you the first time do you call them back for assistance the second time ? I'd leave a Rover broken for a year before buying another part from D.A.P. enterprises. If Chris K thinks there is room for his arrogance and negligence on trails he'll be doing them alone. Just a word of warning to those who think they can trust their parts supplier. Imagine! Chris "V"
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] Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:36:47 -0800 From: Larry Michelon <kismet2@erols.com> Subject: Re: [D90] Killington Trail Report(LONG) Erie is a great guy. He got me un-high centered a couple of times at GP. I'm sure Erie even actually enjoyed himself!! Everyone should have such an attitude.
Larry Michelon
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] From: daitken@sugar-land.anadrill.slb.com Subject: Fw: [D90] Killington Trail Report(LONG) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:16:09 -0500 [forwarded by Chris Velardi to the RRO list at 14:16 26 Jan 1999 I'm forwarding this to the LRO list Doug I hope you don't mind (it will be more effective there) Chris "V"] I am sure (or, at least, I hope!) that the great majority of D-90 owners on this list will line up with me and agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said. Down here in Texas, the gang I wheel with (whether Rover, Jeep, Toyota, Hummer....) all wheel by the rules/ethics you do. I have never seen anyone hold back when someone is stuck or in peril. Happily, cold weather is not one of the problems we generally have to deal with. But in my opinion, this must strengthen the necessity of people sticking together and ensuring everyone gets out in the minimum time from the trail. I'm sorry your trip turned out as tough as it did. I think you said some things which needed to be said. I regret that it was necessary for you to say them! And I hope what you said serves as a wake up call to everyone on the list on their trail responsibilities. And as for those turds who had their tea 'n' crumpets, instead of helping out: a good dose of indigestion to all of you. And good luck finding people to wheel with in the future! PS: I don't wish any ill will or breakages on your rigs! They are not to be blamed for their thoughtless drivers. Neither would I with-hold assistence to you if I came across any of you stuck on trail. And the sad thing is that Chris V., Ernie, Derek, Doug 'n' Paul would help you in the future if they found you stuck..... That is the nature of a real off-roader! I hope you reflect on your behavour and change it in the future. Also a written or E-mail apology to them would be in order!
Doug and Kim Aitken
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] From: "Chris Velardi" <tchris@freewwweb.com> Subject: Re: [D90] Killington Trail Report(LONG) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:22:28 -0500 Non of my posts are looking for praise or apologies, I'm just trying to inform others what to be careful of. When Your rig and your life are on the line. Chris "V"
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] Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:25:44 -0500 From: "British Bulldog Spares, Ltd." <bulldog@meganet.net> Subject: Our Interesting Weekend (Re: Killington, etc) Hey Everyone, I won't repeat any of the details that have already been addressed, the gist of this message is twofold: First, I really want to express my great appreciation to everyone who expressed their concern for our well being this past weekend. Frankly this was one of the worst experiences of my life; one that I hope will not be repeated by me or anyone else. It was scary, dangerous, tiring and possibly life-threatening. Thanks to the big Kahuna upstairs for watching out for us. I came to understand who I can trust and who really cares about my sorry butt. First huge thanks goes to Brian Bonner for driving down from Burlington VT to help us extract the vehicles from their icy (potential) grave. Without his effort, we'd still be there. Thanks to Derek Marley for letting us all use his home as base camp for the weekend and for risking his own person and vehicle; Doug Boehme and Steve Early for hanging on tight as we crossed the very cold rivers and for getting stuck while trying to unstick BB Mobile 2. Chris V for his above and beyond concern and acting as communication liasion. Ernie Young for, well being Ernie Young, a person whom I'm honored to consider one of my best and most trusted friends. Without the help of all these people, there would be either some Vermont rescue dogs out looking for us in the woods, or at least two trucks waiting in three feet of water ready to be picked up in the spring after the snow melt. I'm personally still very shaken, but at least I'm alive (albeit with a frostbitten toe). Second, I want to express my great concern regarding the attitude and actions of the other people involved with the trip. I won't get into the whole deal, but I called one of the parties this morning to sort of confront him and see where his head was at. Basically the response I got was sarcastic, uncaring, unconcerned and totally devoid of any responsibility-taking. I am pissed off beyond belief at this attitude. I had heard some stories about this particular person, but never had any personal experience with him. I gave him a chance to redeem himself in my mind and he not only blew it, he went beyond that into the realm of being an egotistical sociopath; unconcerned with anyone but himself. I try to live by a credo that if you're nice to people, everything else falls into place. I tried to be nice, but with his attitude, I frankly hope I never see him again. For the record, if he had given an apology of any sort, this entire paragraph would have gone unwritten. To make matters worse (in my mind) this person is a competitior of my company. End of story. I've learned my lesson. I know who I can trust and who I can't. Maybe if those other parties involved had had to cross belly button deep rivers holding on to each others hands to prevent being pulled downstream or had a frostbitten foot, they'd be more compassionate. Oh well. Thanks again for the concern and for letting me "spill my guts" as it were. Take care all,
Paul
Proud Sponsors of the 1998 Border to Border Expedition and The C.J. Foundation for S.I.D.S. Toll Free 888.874.3888 -- www.britishbulldog.com
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] Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:18:06 -0500 From: "British Bulldog Spares, Ltd." <bulldog@meganet.net> Subject: Our Interesting Weekend (Re: Killington, etc) -- Addendum Just a quickie. I forgot to thank Alan Elliott from Cityside Garage in Boston for his assistance in getting us the parts we needed to fix the trucks. He spent a considerable amount of time figuring out the best way for me to fix the transmission cooler line and also hooked Derek up with the brake line he needed. He's a great guy and I'd highly recommend his shop for service on your Rover (or Aston Martin, Lotus, etc etc) Thanks,
Paul
Proud Sponsors of the 1998 Border to Border Expedition and The C.J. Foundation for S.I.D.S. Toll Free 888.874.3888 -- www.britishbulldog.com
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] From: EcoDisco18@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:17:24 EST Subject: Chris K and Rovers Chris K is an instructor at the Land Rover Equinox. Who gave this guy a job training others? Leave people to fin for themselves in treacherous conditions just because they couldn't keep up? Not turn around after a call for help came? A man suffered frostbite for Christ's sake. Do we as a community, scratch that, CAN we as a community afford to let people like this be in a position to be training newcomers in the art of off roading? It is people like this that get our lifestyle persecuted and looked down upon by others. Moving above the opinion of others, it is people like Chris K that get others killed. I will not ride on a trail with this man. I would recover him if I were I to find him stuck, because that is just what is done.
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] From: Our2rovers@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:47:14 EST Subject: Re: Chris K and Rovers I have dually noted this stuff and heard the stories, I will not be purchasing from that company but would not have anyway. And I hope it raises awareness about trail etiquette. We should all write up a trail rules flyer for every outing just in case someone gets amnesia and runs off without the pack. Kevin
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] From: "debjohn" <debjohn@gate.net> Subject: attitudes Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:08:35 -0500
I guess there's something to be said for having older
land Rover products and "A Lot Of Knowledge" as opposed to having the latest
Land Rover products and "Little Knowledge". It's too bad our "trailmates"
collectively weren't able to recover their rigs. If you remember, we had a
nice lunch anded we did check to see if any one needed assistance before we
left. AMATEURS!"
No one ever questioned Chris Komars ability to handle off road driving, what was questioned was his ethics his morals and his attitude Nuff said Chris "V" (PS thanks to those who did show concern and turned it into a lesson )
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] From: "Tony Porter" Hello Folks, > Nuff said My 2 cents worth.... those of us like myself with not much experience have been reminded that some trips can be hazardous even to the well prepared... a valuable lesson and thanks for the details. There is a bit of a risk here however that we could end up with escalating conflict that would not be useful. I love this list and would hate to see it descend to a flame war... I was hoping therefore that we could leave this unfortunate occurrence behind us and move on....
Signed,
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